Sunday, October 8, 2006

Youtube Katrina Debate

An internet dialogue I had with some lady from Texas after exchanging words in the comment section of this video:



August 29, 2007
Subject:
katrina
Message:
i'm not quite sure which of my comments that you had a problem with since i made quite a few tonight. but, if it's about the insurance situation for the people in n.o., everyone knows that insurance companies will get out of paying a claim any chance that they get. if the folks in n.o. had flood insurance, they should get paid. if they had homeowners insurance, those policies usually don't cover rising water. as a homeowner and a taxpayer, i don't want my tax dollars to be spent to re-build someone's home just because they didn't have the proper insurance. you need to stop and think about it for a minute. i don't know if you know much about louisiana and n.o., but their local and state politicians are historically corrupt. they've sent at least one maybe two governors to prison. that city is nothing but a bowl that sits between two major pieces of water. it would be insane to not have the proper coverage. and as far as the iraqi war goes, well, we may be in a mess right now, but you also have to remember what hussein was doing to his own people before we got him and his very dangerous sons :putting people feet first in shredding machines. does that not remind you of a man named adolph hitler? anyway, i see that you live in brooklyn, well i live in houston and i have experienced the repurcussions from the katrina fiasco because i have to live with my city's elevated crime rate everyday. don't talk about what you know nothing about.

Re: katrina
Message:
Frankly, I couldn't tell you which one I responded to either, the thread is just a real mess of back and fourths.
Anyway, I have no personal knowledge of Katrina, I have never been there, and can admit that while the whole thing was happening I never understood the gravity of it. But now I can do nothing else but just feel sick to my stomach about the whole thing, especially after seeing the Spike Lee film, and reading up on it all, I just feel outrage. However, two years ago, as it was all just happening I was living at my college dorm with a friend from Metaire? Mt. Airy? I don't remember, but it hit her really tremendously hard to see this all happening to the city she grew up in, even though her home wasn't affected all that much and she knew very few people who were.

This is my only personal connection to what happened in New Orleans. But soon came to understand the severity of the situation, and started to reach an awareness of the extreme racism and hatred faced by the survivors. How could we go from a moment of immense unity and patriotism during 9/11 and then something tenfold in devastation comes along, and there is derision and we don't think twice on writing these thousands of people off who have no options, have lost everything and want nothing more than to get their lives back.

I don't disagree with you that what Hussein did as a ruler was wrong, but he's not really an issue ever since his hanging. How do you justify paying millions of tax payer money to send innocent soldiers to their deaths? Why are we paying taxes to kill innocent Iraqi civilians?
Then there's the 60 million dollars Bush approved to send to AIDS victims in Africa during the G8 convention. While this is probably one of the only good things I have seen tax money being spent on, I'm surprised people don't riot about that money since.. you know, these AIDS-riddled savages should just rely on their own government to take care of them and maybe they should just find a cure for themselves.. I don't know. I wish people didn't think that way, but it seems like a popular sentiment.
Then there's the Tsunami disaster in Sri Lanka and Indonesia, there was plenty of evidence this would happen. People remained oblivious, we watched the devastation and without an minute of hesitation we dropped food, there were phone drives within the next couple days, they raised millions of dollars, major corporations donated millions upon millions of dollars.
Where was this generosity for their own people? Why are we so skeptical of helping our neighbors, fellow citizens, fellow humans in crisis? That's all I was trying to say.

August 29, 2007
Subject: re: katrina
Message:
hi sweetie! i'm getting tired and have been drinking wine while making all these comments, so i'll try to keep this short. first of all, don't watch that spike lee film. he's edited it so that it will make you feel like shit. it's been a while since i've seen it, but does he show any of the looting that went on? and i don't mean the people that were stealing food. i can understand that. but the people stealing tv's, video game equipment, tennis shoes? he's not going to show you the bad stuff that those people did. everyone seems to focus so much on what bush didn't do for n.o. well, take a look at what ray nagin and kathleen blanco didn't do. that was their people. i live in houston, and i know that if something like that happended here, we wouldn't be relying on the feds to tell us what to do. our mayor and governor would be the ones taking charge. they'd go to the feds if they needed it. plus, you have to remember about the city of n.o., just the location of it is a disaster waiting to happen. i know that you are young and your heart hurts for the katrina people. but, n.o., louisiana and the people that live there must share in some of the blame for the entire mess. re: the war. i grew up during vietnam. it was a horrible time for our country. my personal feelings about iraq is that george w. went over there to clean up the mess that his daddy left after the gulf war. i.e. to capture and kill saddam. but at this point, i don't feel that we can retreat because if we do, the shit will follow us home and we will be fighting on american soil. that is something that i do not want. plus i have a son who will turn 18 in march. i don't want him to have to go to war, but i have friends whose young sons are more than willing to do so. our freedoms are being tested right now by the people in the middle east. we cannot afford to lose. i'm an old chic (50) and you are a young woman just starting her life. i will actually probably die before things get really bad in the middle east, but you won't. you need to think in terms of the safety of your future. o.k., sorry, i said this would be short and i've rambled and probably not addressed everything in your e-mail, but we can discuss this again anytime you want. you know where to find me. before i go, i do have to say that i think that you are an intelligent young woman who has a very kind heart. you think about what you want to say before you say it. i'm sure that your mother is very proud to have a daughter like you. goodnight for now. patti

August 31, 2007
Subject:
Re: re: katrina pt. 1
Message:
Thank you Patti, my mother is in fact very proud of me, and I do everything for her. I want you to know that I appreciate the insights you have imparted onto me, however I have some reservations about what you mentioned. Of course Spike Lee's movie was edited, as are all documentaries, and that's why people make them, to convey a point of view concerning actual events and facts. He shows the good looters and in fact didn't hesitate to show the bad looters either, and the rest of what was shown in the film is just ghastly and unfortunately irrefutable. I just can't help but feel like the money that was not spent on building the proper levee structure could have in turn prevented all of this, and these people could have gone on with their merry Live. Personally I believe, the Corps of Engineers that is a federally funded group should be liable for this disaster. Then there is FEMA whose sole purpose is to respond to disasters and assist the victims. As another federally funded institution with that very specific purpose to help the affected individuals, there really is a great deal of liability on the federal government to respond to what happened, and after all was said and done they didn't do it in a very timely manner at all, and people are still suffering after two years. If the politicians in New Orleans are renowned as corrupt figures, who else should step to the plate and do what needs to be done? During Hurricane Betsy, Johnson came down, in the dead of the night, and did what he needed to do as president. He showed his people that they were cared for, and that help was on the way. Bush could certainly have taken a lesson from history there, but he apparently only learns the bad ones.

During 9/11, while being a definite tragedy, an truly sorrowful loss of life; only a very small portion of New York City was affected, and the only thing that ever seems to be mentioned is the loss of those fucking towers destroyed by the attacks. The response to this was TREMENDOUS! For goodness sake, a war was launched as some sort of misdirected retribution for what happened, that's millions and millions and millions of dollars that is being poured into the loss of some stupid corporate buildings, and that is something that is an outrage to see tax money spent on when the education and health systems in this country are severely lacking. Then there's Rudy Guiliani, the regional mayor who really did nothing, because the volunteer and federal response was so overwhelming there was nothing left for him to do but to wear a fire-helmet for the cameras and give the thumb's up to everyone else doing the hard labor, and intoxicating their lungs during the clean up. I haven't seen Guiliani so much as wheeze, after all of the "hard work" he has done and he had the audacity to say that he was doing more than anyone on ground zero. He's just an adulterous schmuck who happened to be there. On top of that, the fire dept. suffered huge cutbacks on their budget right before 9/11 and when the time came, they didn't have everything they needed at a crucial moment, that's why the volunteer response was so critical.
In regards to the Iraq War, yes George went over there to clean up daddy's mess. Funding terrorist organizations tends to bite back in a vicious way. In my personal opinion, it'll take another 46,000 soldier deaths to match the amount of soldier killed in Vietnam before the grave mistake of entering Iraq will ever be acknowledged and corrected. Right now, we have no purpose there. And just like in Vietnam, the ideals we were fighting won't reach us here. If there are more terrorist attacks on American soil, I can only imagine it would be because we have incited so much hatred for America over there, and have only shown the worst part of our culture to those people, what more can we possibly expect? It's just a matter of time. American and British soldiers have been caught conducting false flag

(this is part 1)
August 30, 2007
Read:

Subject:
Re: re: katrina pt. 2
Message:
operations to instigate more violence between the two groups. And the only people they are supposedly protecting fear for their lives and their children's lives more-so under American "protection" than they did under Suddam's treacherous rule. And, let me tell you, you really don't need to worry about your son being drafted, maybe you can worry about him being manipulated by an army recruiter, but I can assure the draft will never happen. The surge was even an excessive measure when you think about all of the private contractors that have been hired to serve in Iraq. The number of private contractors currently serving in Iraq far exceeds the number of soldiers even after the surge took place. And this is a very scary thing let me tell you. They're salaries are significantly higher than that of a soldier, they're paid straight from the governments pocket, they have no training to be working in the areas they are occupying, and most frightening of all, they have no liability whatsoever for any of crimes they commit in Iraq.
The same way we swooped up Suddamm, there are well over twenty other repressive regimes currently in place throughout the globe, that the united states won't ever touch. Currently we're supporting Israel, (and I say this with no reservations as a Jewish individual) and incredibly corrupt government that has been invoking all sorts of reprehensible human rights violations at the hands of the Palestinian civilians. All I have to say is, if you can't see the victims of these tragedies simply as human beings that are no different from yourself or I, aside from their crippling circumstances, just asking for a little help.. you need to wake up.
Which leads me to another point, Abu Ghraib. You know what, I'm sorry this could really be a novel very soon, and I'm sure you've read enough for your eyes to fall out of their respective sockets. I just want you to know, I mean you no disrespect and value you're opinion, I just think you need to open your eyes to the bigger picture.


re:katrina pts 1 & 2
Message:
hi and thanks for your response. maybe you should write a book or become some type of activist (maybe you already are). i think that at this point, you and i are just going to have to agree to disagree. which is o.k. with me. that's what makes the world go round, doesn't it? have a great weekend!

August 31, 2007
Read:

Subject:
Re: re:katrina pts 1 & 2
Message:
Well, that you Patti for our little debate. I think you're right, agreeing to disagree is a sound idea, and respect you in spite of our differences. I'd still be interested in hearing your response to my last set of emails, but understand if you'd choose not to. Too much going on in the world to worry about a correspondence on Youtube, haha.
Okay, I wish you the same, have a pleasant weekend

August 31, 2007
Subject:
re: our katrina debate
Message:
hi girl! you know, it's friday and when the evening rolls around and i start sipping my wine, i'll go back and read your e-mail again. i tend to get just a tad bit verbose when i have a little wine, so i'll probably write back to you. also, i too, enjoy a friendly debate even when there is big difference of opinion. one of my very best friends lives in ft. worth and she and i get into it all the time regarding politics and whatever else we decide to argue about. and you know what? we still love each other dearly. if everyone thought exactly the same, life would be soooo boring, wouldn't it? i'll talk to you later. patti

September 02, 2007
Subject:
our debates
Message:
hi gabriela! for some reason, i've missed talking to you. i'm sure that you are busy with your art and your classes, but i would love to hear from you whenever you get the chance. your katrina debating buddy, patti. by the way, we can also discuss subjects other than katrina. peace to you sweetie. hope to hear from you soon. xoxoxo

September 03, 2007
Read:

Subject:
Re: our debates
Message:
Hey Patti, Sorry I haven't been on here too much lately. I've been taking part in all sorts of things going on in Oriole Stadium, participating in actions to give their day laborers a living wage. Its turned into a huge campaign thats been picked up by teledmundo first, then fox and abc followed suite. I am in a sense an activist, I try to do what I can and what I should, but I'm pretty low key.

I apologize if the end is a little, harsh, I was in a mood I guess. But yes, if any other topics come to mind, I would certainly be up for discussion, it's nice to let the lines of communication open with individuals I wouldn't necessarily encounter otherwise.
I wish you all the best, and peace be with you as well,
Gabriela

September 07, 2007
Subject:
our debates
Message:
hi gabriela! sorry that i haven't responded earlier, but my husband, who normally works out of town during the week, (he owns his own seismic company) has been home most of this past week. i try not to spend a lot of time on the computer when he's home and instead spend time with him. anyway, thanks for sharing with me regarding your activities. like i said before, i know that your mom is really proud of a daughter like you. to be as young as you are, you are very passionate about your beliefs and that seems very rare these days. well, i do have to tell you that you have certainly made your point regarding the iraqi mess. i can honestly say that i don't have a rebuttal for you (you're probably glad for that). in the beginning, i was glad that bush went over there and got that s.o.b. hussein and his evil sons. however, the longer this goes on, the worse i feel about the entire situation. and it's not because i fear that my son will be drafted. i agree with you that the people of this country will not allow a draft to take place. and i don't worry about my son being lured by some recruiter. he is adamant about his feelings about fighting in this war. so, sweetie, i'm not going to argue with you about that subject. but, (you knew that was coming, didn't you?) i disagree about israel. you said that you are jewish or part jewish. well, i'm a christian girl and we have always been taught that the jews are god's chosen people. i, probably because of the way that i was raised, have always been on the side of israel, although i'm not as well versed as i should be on the history of the problems of the jews and the palestinians. anyway, please don't come down too hard on me for saying that, it's just the way that i feel. by the way, in your last e-mail to me, you weren't too harsh. you can be in a mood if you want. i promise you, even thought i don't personally know you, i can tell from our correspondence that you are a fair woman who is going to speak her mind. and you know what, i think that you're a fantastic girl for having the guts to do that. i'll just bet that you give your professors at college a good debate whenever the need arises. and just a footnote, i've always thought that the jewish guys were always the cutest ones. my good friend, hilda, an hispanic, catholic girl (well, she's a very cute 63 yr old) is married to a jewish man. i think that he's the same age as her, and he's still a cutie. sorry for getting off the subject and rambling on, but i concede this argument to you. anyway, you're a lovely girl with a lovely name and i hope that you have a great weekend. your friend, patti

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